The 2/6/24 Amanpour and Company episode concludes with a fascinating interview by Walter Isaacson with Brian Klass, author of Fluke, Chance, Chaos, and Why Everything We Do Matters. I posted the complete transcript under Systemic/ Articles/Essays/Op-eds and linked to this comment on the Systemic/Books entry.

The points that struck me most strongly include

Brian Klaas, welcome to the show.

BRIAN KLAAS, AUTHOR, "FLUKE ": Thanks for having me here.

ISAACSON: Your new book is called "Fluke." The subtitle is "Chance, Chaos, and Why Everything We Do Matters." Let's start by just explaining, what is a fluke?

KLAAS: A fluke is a highly consequential event that happens by chance or is arbitrary or random. And so, I argue in the book that our world is shaped by these and our lives are shaped by these much more than we imagine, but we just pretend otherwise because it's much nicer to imagine that we have neat and tidy stories to make sense of our world and our own lives.

ISAACSON: Well, one example I think you use is the Arab Spring, a Tunisian vendor. Explain how that does that.

KLAAS: Yes, so you've got a sort of moment in the Middle East in late 2010, where there's a lot of people who are pretty angry at their dictatorships. And all of a sudden, one of those angry people decides to light himself on fire in Central Tunisia, Mohamed Bouazizi. And this spark creates a conflagration that basically consumes the entire Middle East, leads to several regimes collapsing, and then also, the Syrian civil war, which hundreds of thousands of people died in.

And so, when you think about this, you think about, you know, would this have happened but for this trigger in Tunisia? And I think this is the sort of way that our world works, is partly between order and disorder, where you have these trends and these sorts of aspects where you get towards what's called the tipping point or the edge of chaos, and then a single thing can tip you over that edge and create an extremely consequential event that shifts how the world works.

To help build a new powerful grassroots movement, my primary suggestion at the moment is that at least once a month, movement members 1) open small team meetings with a moment of silence and 2) confidentially report on their recent efforts to undo or control the desire to dominate and the willingness to submit for personal gain.

This shared experience could nurture a sense of community among those teams who use these tools.

You can suggest amendments or alternatives to this formulation by using the Comment Form or sending me an email with the Contact link.

Wade Lee Hudson

My inclination is to call it the “systemic reform movement.” This phrase refers to our primary problem: the Top-Down System. Other options include the pro-democracy movement and the compassion movement.

You can suggest amendments or alternatives to this formulation by using the Comment Form or sending me an email with the Contact link.

Wade Lee Hudson

Our society encourages everyone to climb social ladders, look down on, try to dominate and exploit those below and submit to those above. Our institutions, culture, and ourselves as individuals are woven together into a single, self-perpetuating social system — the Top-Down System.

You can suggest amendments or alternatives to this formulation by using the Comment Form or sending me an email with the Contact link.

Wade Lee Hudson

As the mission for a new powerful grassroots movement, I suggest:

To serve humanity, the environment, and life itself.

You can suggest alternatives or amendments with the Comment Form.

By Wade Lee Hudson

References to  “the system” are common in advertising, political commentary, popular culture, and elsewhere, but few people define what they mean by the phrase.

Wikipedia says, “A system is a group of interacting or interrelated elements that act according to a set of rules to form a unified whole.” 

This description leaves open the question of whether any one element controls or dominates a particular system. Concerning human societies, for instance, who rules? Who’s to blame?

Interpersonal conflicts weaken activist organizations, social service providers, spiritual communities, families, schools, workplaces, and other organizations. These problems have a root cause: society inflames the desire to dominate and the willingness to submit for personal gain. The systemic reform movement envisioned here addresses these issues with new, egalitarian social structures. 

Disrespect, arrogance, egoism, assumptions of moral superiority, elitism, dogmatism, lack of internal democracy, weak mutual support, scapegoating, demonizing, resentments, power struggles, inner turmoil, and other dilemmas are widespread. These issues don’t plague every group, but many afflict most, and they have the same solution: cultivate compassionate cooperation throughout society. 

The Desire to Dominate and the Willingness to Submit

By Wade Lee Hudson

Power struggles weaken organizations, but hardly anyone addresses the divisive social conditioning that inflames the desire to dominate and the willingness to submit for personal gain. Overcoming this divisive root cause can help fix dysfunctional organizations and build a systemic reform movement to transform society into a just and compassionate community rooted in democratic hierarchies.

Hyper-individualistic, hyper-competitive domination leads to exploitation and efforts to defeat “enemies” and punish scapegoats. Blind submission reinforces the status quo. The failure to distinguish between justified and unjustified domination/submission interferes with controlling adverse reactions. 

Paternalistic human service professionals assume a superior, controlling, disabling attitude toward clients. Nonprofit housing corporations resist collaborating with tenant councils. Kind-hearted people-helpers seek ego gratification and social status. Teachers funnel knowledge into students’ minds in a one-way process. Traditional doctors and nurses treat patients as objects. Self-seeking trainers of all sorts hustle for money and praise.

By Wade Lee Hudson

The desire for wealth, power, and status in order to dominate and the willingness to submit to oppressive power is society’s driving force. This pattern permeates every arena: cultural, social, personal, economic, environmental, and political — national, and international. 

These dynamics reinforce each other, producing our prevailing self-perpetuating system — the System. This hyper-competitive, hyper-individualistic system pressures people to conform, forces many to obey against their will, fragments society, scapegoats “enemies,” blames individuals for social problems, and foments revenge and the desire to punish. With activists, toxic interpersonal dynamics often result.

Changing this system fundamentally requires a new central mission, such as: to transform our dominant social system — the System — into a just and compassionate community that serves humanity, the environment, and life itself.

A systemic reform movement committed to a mission like this could advance simultaneous, synergistic reforms in every arena. This holistic and systemic transformation would address the whole person and the whole society, reform existing social structures, and establish new ones. 

By Wade Lee Hudson

Countless compassionate individuals relieve suffering and promote justice, but these efforts are fragmented and internal conflicts undermine effectiveness. 

What if we unite, call for holistic and systemic transformation, unlearn divisive social conditioning, build caring communities, and focus on winnable policy changes? A powerful independent, global movement could emerge. 

Activists could come together briefly to support each other and accomplish more together than they can alone — and then return to their regular activities, empowered by a sense of purpose and solidarity.

Imagine two million Americans urging their Congresspeople to support a crucial bill with strong public backing but stuck in Congress. These campaigners use various methods, such as letters, emails, phone calls, office visits, and statements at public forums. 

By Wade Lee Hudson

Society weaves together our institutions, communities, families, cultures, and ourselves as individuals into a single self-perpetuating social system — the System.  This system permeates every aspect of our lives. Our society teaches individuals, groups, organizations, and nations to seek status, wealth, and power to dominate and exploit those below them and submit to those above them for selfish gain. 

Compassion-mind individuals and organizations promote justice and relieve suffering in countless ways — at home and work, in spiritual communities and civic organizations, and with their nations. If these fragmented efforts united, they could change the world. 

A powerful grassroots movement based on shared principles could nurture just and compassionate communities dedicated to all humanity, the environment, and life itself.