China and Democracy
On May 18, 2023 I posted the following to the Compassionate Action Workshop listserv:
In his “What Americans Don’t Understand About China” New York Times op-ed yesterday, Peter Coy reported:
The latest World Values Survey, conducted from 2017 to 2020, indicates that 95 percent of Chinese participants had significant confidence in their government, compared to 33 percent in the United States. Similarly, 93 percent of Chinese participants valued security over freedom; only 28 percent of Americans did so.
This data prompted me to find these quotes from Fyodor Dostoevsky’s “The Grand Inquisitor” story in his novel, The Brothers Karamazov.
You want to go into the world, and you are going empty-handed, with some promise of freedom, which they in their simplicity and innate lawlessness cannot even comprehend, which they dread and fear—for nothing has ever been more insufferable for man and for human society than freedom! But do you see these stones in this bare, scorching desert? Turn them into bread and mankind will run after you like sheep, grateful and obedient, though eternally trembling lest you withdraw your hand and your loaves cease for them.
That day must come when men will understand that freedom and daily bread enough to satisfy all are unthinkable and can never be had together, as men will never be able to fairly divide the two among themselves. And they will also learn that they can never be free, for they are weak, vicious, miserable nonentities born wicked and rebellious.
There is no more ceaseless or tormenting care for man, as long as he remains free, than to find someone to bow down to as soon as possible.
Had you accepted that third counsel of the mighty spirit, you would have furnished all that man seeks on earth, that is: someone to bow down to, someone to take over his conscience, and a means for uniting everyone at last into a common, concordant, and incontestable anthill - for the need for universal union is the third and last torment of men.
For they will remember only too well that in old days, without our help, even the bread they made turned to stones in their hands, while since they have come back to us, the very stones have turned to bread in their hands. Too, too well will they know the value of complete submission! And until men know that, they will be unhappy.
This elicited the following comments:
Larry Walker: I like this a lot. I believe China is VERY misunderstood in America - to our loss!
Wade Lee Hudson: Should we encourage the development of more democracy in China? If so, how?
Rob Scarlett: I would prefer that we work to introduce democracy in the U.S.A.
WLH: Rob, Should we be indifferent to conditions in China? Might we encourage more democracy abroad by being a better example at home? Is there any validity to the Freedom House “Global Freedom Scores"?
RS: I apologize for my shallow response to your question, Should we encourage the development of more democracy in China? If so, how?
I believe we should be totally attentive to conditions in China while remembering that "Charity begins at home."
(For the sake of telling the whole truth, 17th-century clergyman. the Rev. Thomas Fuller, actually is quoted as saying, "Charity begins at home, but should not end there").
We should also remember that it was the post-Maost Chinese variant of governmental leadership that contributed to reducing abject poverty in the world to half of what it was prior to 2015 - and this Chinese variant of government has also allowed China to reach a level of equitable income/asset distribution (Gini Coefficient) equivalent to that of the U.S.A. (which is really not saying much, since the Gini Coefficients in both China and the U.S. are both dramatically higher - an undesirable position - than in Northern Europe).
Do we understand the history of Chinese culture and thought as it relates to their present form of governance? Is it possible that the current form of governance in China is actually an authentic representation of historical Chinese values and traditions?
In the New York Times OpEd that Larry Walker shared with us, we learned about a World Values Survey (conducted between 2017 and 2020) that "95% of Chinese participants had significant confidence in their government, compared to 35% in the United States". This survey probably raises more questions than it answers, but it should make us approach your question with great humility.
Here in the U.S., we still have an opportunity to keep working on "the Idea of America" and creating an inclusive form of representative democracy.
It seems to me that, rather than seek to impose a U.S. hegemony on the world, we should perfect our democracy and put it on display for all the world to see - and perhaps emulate.
Anyway, I believe your question was a good one, but I also believe that, somehow, the Chinese people should help us refine questions like these.
LW: Before we begin telling China what to do, I suggest that we need to know about what China is actually doing. They have a Centenary Goal in 2049 that EVERY Chinese person will be prosperous. Our 'democracy' does not seem to have an equally good goal for 2049.
I agree with Larry's and Rob's opinions. I congratulate the 3 of you and the whole group on recommending the essential engagement and effort by everyone to seek greater understanding and to think critically and honestly, now so scarce among billions across the world who seem to be giving up and letting the puppet-masters, who claim to be "the only ones who know how to solve the world's problems" and demand we do exactly and totally what they want in order to survive, smile and show everyone else we are content.
I would suggest 2 additional and, from my perspective, even more important prerequisites:
1. For the skeptics and atheists: that they read or reread Stephen Hawking, Einstein, Newton and other physicists and visionaries from other less narrow and shallow sciences and sociopolitical perspectives like Socrates and the Iroquois, Lafayette and other Founders of the American Experiment, Da Vinci, Galileo, Maslow, Frankl, Fromm. Berne, Orwell, Konrad Lorenz, Aldous Huxley, Edison, Gandhi, Mandela, Byron, Shakespeare and many others who asked us to be humble and recognize humanity's minute accumulated knowledge and necessary "failures" to make progress in order to all become "geniuses," "heroes," "saints," etc...if we only choose to cooperate, communicate to build the better future reality we all say we want through everyone's unique individual talents instead of silencing and destroying everyone who disagrees, as we have tragically done since the beginning of time.
2. For the even more scarce sincere and blessed believers in God and pursuers of the Truth who have been able to hear/see by Grace or by indomitable work to Co-,create at all risks until death:
Jesus' simple example of unconditional self-sacrifice and statements "Do not be afraid... first take the log out in your eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye... Love one another"
Cheer, hope, faith!
Randy Thomas: Yes!
RS: I am hoping that even non-Christian secularists can appreciate and embrace your gentle admonition below: "Do not be afraid... first take the log out in your eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye... Love one another".
WLH: My question was: Should we encourage the development of more democracy in
China? If so, how? So far, I’ve not heard a clear Yes as an answer.
By “we,” I mean we, fellow members of the human family.
We can be self-critical and criticize others without first purifying
ourselves. We can make judgments without being judgmental. We can resist the
pressure to take sides, demonize, and blame the opposing side. We can decline
to scapegoat.
The materialistic West seduces people with creature comforts and the lure of
greater prosperity — as does China. China has conquered neighboring
territories and seeks to dominate other countries — as does the United
States. That’s what Great Powers do. They manufacture crises for their own
interest and fear the reduction of their power.
The primary problem is the System, which teaches everyone to climb social
ladders and look down on and dominate and exploit those below. Both the
United States and China are players in this game. Both reinforce the System.
Both represent the historical values and traditions seen in every country
since the birth of centralized agriculture.
Nevertheless, some distinctions are valid. Hitler crossed multiple red lines.
We can rightly affirm the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The United
States should join the International Criminal Court. The post-World War Two
protection of national borders is important.
We can encourage the development of more democracy in both the United States
and China — without seeking American hegemony.
The question is: How?
Trying to tell anyone or any country what to do is usually counterproductive.
However, silence is complicity.LW: My comment previously was that we should understand what China
is really doing before we begin to criticize them. Our media does an
excellent job of highlighting issues in China -- often with no evidence
to support their points.
Your Comment: The materialistic West seduces people with creature comforts and the lure of greater prosperity — as does China. China has conquered neighboring territories and seeks to dominate other countries — as does the United States. That’s what Great Powers do. They manufacture crises for their own interest and fear the reduction of their power.
China has 4,500 years of history demonstrating they do NOT colonize other nations.
There is a museum in Turkey that shows significant achievements of the East and the West.
For the West, there are numerous displays of various advances in weapons.
For the East, the stress is on wonderful trade goods such as silk and jade.
Taiwan has been part of China for 4,500 years.
What would US do if Catalina Island suddenly wanted to be independent? Or Puerto Rico? Or Hawaii?
154 nations have applied to join China's Belts and Roads Initiative.
Effectively, this is a global 'Marshall Plan'.
Making China the clear leader of the developing nations of the world.
China has significant relationship agreements with dozens and dozens of nations worldwide.
In every case these relationships stress that every nation must choose the form of government that fits them best.
China is NOT trying to impose its form of government on others.
China's form of socialism has been compared to that of Scandinavian countries ("Socialism with Chinese characteristics')
China is winning the diplomatic war -- while the U.S. appears to be a bully demanding that everyone become 'democratic' -- like us.
The world is facing a serious Debt Crisis as multiple nations are having trouble repaying loans.
China has forgiven over $1 Trillion of debt trying to head this off.
U.S., IMF, and World Bank have refused to help -- unless nations meet significant requirements.
The bulk of the U.S. portion of this debt is held by private investors -- that we do NOT control, but who can make demands on other nations.
Xi Jinping has stressed World Peace in multiple speeches.
China is brokering talks between Saudi Arabia and Iran.
This may end the war in Yement which the U.S. has been supporting.
RT: RrI’ve heard this expression “ silence is complicity” or “ silence is death” before. I understand what this is referencing about not speaking out or taking some kind of action. What if silence is the partner in opening dialogue with the “other?” An open space of not presuming we know more or better. Identifying common concerns about life, global survival, sustainability, solidarity. How to we engage in this form of inquiry that is mutually beneficial and empowering for both parties?” How do we learn to disarm our words and weapons as projections of fear, protection and defense? I have no definitive answers to these questions, yet I know we need to personally and collectively find creative ways of engaging them. Withdrawal, isolation, creating rigid boundaries, is not a life giving, affirming process. Creating more open systems that allow for a more free stream and flow of words, thoughts and actions is indeed more “holistic” and aligned to organic and embodied evolutionary life forms. For me, this is a way of honoring and reverencing the sacredness of all life. Welcoming and inviting the Spirit of Life into the words and silences of our dialogs and relationships with others. Listening as a way of balancing our vocation and vision. Humility in not knowing in advance what might emerge from this quest for common ground. Our shared humanity and our global home. Is this practical? Is this probable? Is this possible? …… Is this an imperative urgency? Life and Death at the threshold. The Zeitgeist and Apocalypse of our times.